pcmanfm - '~' is MyDocuments at desktop?

The dedicated forum for PCMan File Manager - http://wiki.lxde.org/en/PCManFM

pcmanfm - '~' is MyDocuments at desktop?

Postby nitrofurano » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:34 pm

Naming the '~' folder at desktop as 'My Documents' is a huge, huge mistake - the '~' is used to store mostly personal configurations of the applications we use, and the 'Documents' (mostly at '~/Documents') is just a small part of this directory - would be interesting this being fixed on the next versions...
nitrofurano
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:18 am

Re: pcmanfm - '~' is MyDocuments at desktop?

Postby firmit » Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:26 am

"Consider the conventions of both GNOME and Windows, and try to follow the habit of most users. Do not deliberately make the GUI quite different only because you want to be different from Windows. Usability is always the top one concern. Windows might not be good in some areas, but like it or not, most computer users in the world get used to it. Trying to fight your users is apparently unwise. " (Wiki frontpage)

This is far from a bug. It is merely a convention that is used. You are right about the personal configuration files, but those are mostly hidden files - not visible, and not that often edited manually by the user. At least not by newbies! "My Documents" is very Windozy - but I also rolled my eyes the first time I installed LXDE - but it is a widely and commonly used convention - and not to be mistaken :) It made the transition for my father easy ;)

However, I would also like this to be a feature request in PCManfm - allowing the user to change the name of the My Documents icon - maybe even have this as a soft-link as ~/Desktop/.link_home.desktop for easy editing.
firmit
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:08 pm

Re: pcmanfm - '~' is MyDocuments at desktop?

Postby tlaloc » Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:29 am

What is more annoying to me is that pcmanfm starts with hidden files by default - Ctrl+H should be a mode to turn this on, rather than off.
There is a related question which I have already seen on different forums (without solution): How do you get rid of the MyDocuments-Icon at all? I have already deleted the entire content of ~/Desktop, and it killed everything except for this single icon. What a nerdy beast ;) ...
tlaloc
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:25 pm

Re: pcmanfm - '~' is MyDocuments at desktop?

Postby firmit » Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:50 am

PCManfm is set to Handle the Desktop and show file icons. Turn this off
PCManfm->Edit->Preference->Desktop->Manage the desktop....

As for the Hidden files - this is kind of weird - because this hidden files is shown on my desktop computer - but not my laptop - as default. I will look into it - if the developers don't have an answer.

Updated: the option of having Hidden toggled the way you want, is working for me - also, remember that this only applies to the PCManfm - not when opening or saving files from Leafpad for instance - then ShowHidden is set in ~/.config/gtk-2.0/gtkfilechooser.ini
Last edited by firmit on Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
firmit
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:08 pm

Re: pcmanfm - '~' is MyDocuments at desktop?

Postby nitrofurano » Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:39 pm

what i tried to say is 'home' is one thing, and 'documents' another thing, completelly different... - naming 'home' folder as 'documents' folder is exactly the same as naming 'etc' folder as 'X11' folder...
nitrofurano
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:18 am

Re: pcmanfm - '~' is MyDocuments at desktop?

Postby nitrofurano » Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:42 pm

On Gnome you can have both 'home' and 'documents' folder at desktop, one of them, or none.
On Gnome, 'Documents' is '~/Documents', and 'Home' is '~'. Much more simple to understand, and much more safe for avoiding mistakes.
nitrofurano
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:18 am

Re: pcmanfm - '~' is MyDocuments at desktop?

Postby tlaloc » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:27 pm

firmit wrote:PCManfm is set to Handle the Desktop and show file icons. Turn this off
PCManfm->Edit->Preference->Desktop->Manage the desktop....

Yes, but if I would choose that, I would also loose my beloved wall-paper (all in black, with a lone wolf crying at the moon).
PCmanFM should handle the Desktop - it is just that it should not draw this silly MyDocuments-icon on my wallpaper.
tlaloc
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:25 pm

Re: pcmanfm - '~' is MyDocuments at desktop?

Postby dekaru » Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:12 am

tlaloc wrote:
firmit wrote:PCManfm is set to Handle the Desktop and show file icons. Turn this off
PCManfm->Edit->Preference->Desktop->Manage the desktop....

Yes, but if I would choose that, I would also loose my beloved wall-paper (all in black, with a lone wolf crying at the moon).
PCmanFM should handle the Desktop - it is just that it should not draw this silly MyDocuments-icon on my wallpaper.



So, how do you hide that My Documents icon on the desktop without unchecking the pcmanfm managing of the desktop ??

I do find it a little too "windowish" and I don't like it one bit. Maybe it's good for transitional users but the configuration options are not evident for people who want to customize further the desktop.

As a sidee-question... is there a GUI to manage my autostarted apps ?
dekaru
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:47 am

Re: pcmanfm - '~' is MyDocuments at desktop?

Postby firmit » Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:19 pm

dekaru wrote:So, how do you hide that My Documents icon on the desktop without unchecking the pcmanfm managing of the desktop ??

I do find it a little too "windowish" and I don't like it one bit. Maybe it's good for transitional users but the configuration options are not evident for people who want to customize further the desktop.

As a sidee-question... is there a GUI to manage my autostarted apps ?


1) You don't
2) Under LXDE Wiki PRINCIPLE and GUIDELINES: "Consider the conventions of both GNOME and Windows, and try to follow the habit of most users. Do not deliberately make the GUI quite different only because you want to be different from Windows. Usability is always the top one concern. Windows might not be good in some areas, but like it or not, most computer users in the world get used to it. Trying to fight your users is apparently unwise. "

It's on the front page .... it's like the motivation PCMAN has for PCManfm.....

3) Unfortunately no - but this is easy to fix, and probably on the to-do list for the developers, if the development is still ongoing :)
firmit
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:08 pm

Re: pcmanfm - '~' is MyDocuments at desktop?

Postby dekaru » Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:59 pm

firmit wrote:"Consider the conventions of both GNOME and Windows, and try to follow the habit of most users. Do not deliberately make the GUI quite different only because you want to be different from Windows. Usability is always the top one concern. Windows might not be good in some areas, but like it or not, most computer users in the world get used to it. Trying to fight your users is apparently unwise. "



did you refer to the fact of pcmanfm controlling the desktop and doing things i CANNOT configure or just the general pcmanfm experience? If it is the latter, I think it's a good idea in general for transitional users.. but I don't think that would be a reason to have an undermined tool (like for example in the sense of making the size of the thumbails bigger or some shortcuts for the side panel, which thunar does.. just to say the least). Users could find themselves with a similar, only better, tool and have a direct comparison against windows, instead of just a similar tool.

if you meant the first thing (pcmanfm doing things by default which i cannot control), I don't think it's a good idea. I've always stood up for linux in the sense that is highly configurable and flexible even though most people find it difficult at the beginning because they expect it to work the same way as windows, and it sure doesn't have to be that way. I've always told them that it's actually easier in general, but you have to unlearn some stuff and learn some other. Also, that the way you find yourself around your computer changes and that also implies a change in your way of organizing yourself mentally.
Grabbing ideas from Windows in terms of usability is great and I won't deny maybe MS has a few hits in that sense... but porting that same forced structure and lack of flexibility into Linux is not so fine. I wouldn't like to see pcmanfm, or LXDE in general, headed that way. Next thing we'll see are Shared Documents folder, My Pictures, My Linux Configuration Files... ???

Maybe my opinion dervies from the initial change as to what I expected when changing DE, but I think it's precisely that's the feedback that's more valuable since older users are already used to how the system works and sometimes their feedback is not that radical.

:D
dekaru
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:47 am

Next

Return to PCManFM

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest