From Lubuntu-LXDE to What?

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abacus7
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From Lubuntu-LXDE to What?

Post by abacus7 »

I'm curious as to what Lubuntu users plan to do once the LXDE version is no longer supported.

I haven't had much luck finding a replacement, but it's partly because of unexpected obstacles...

LXLE looks good, but the 64-bit installer is corrupt. (I haven't tried the 32-bit one).

I'm finding that Debian-based LXDE distros are currently a problem due to unreliable repositories. That affects Sparky, Bunsen Labs, and Debian itself. Note that Bunsen Labs is technically openbox, but LXDE can be added. That had been my planned migration until the repository problems.

I've tried some non-LXDE distros (Mint-xfce, Peppermint, Xubuntu) but their resource use is a bit more than I want.

Lutuntu-lxqt has too many annoying features to even consider, given that it doesn't have the low-resource advantage of it's LXDE predecessor.

So what are the rest of you planning?

Anyone else experiencing trouble with the Debian repositories?

At this rate, I may just stick with Lubuntu-LXDE and forego any security updates.

Rex Bouwense
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Re: From Lubuntu-LXDE to What?

Post by Rex Bouwense »

Have run across a similar problem here. Our LUG was using Lubuntu as our "go to" distro for newbie installs at our installation festivals. We were dealing with a great deal of older 32 bit computers. Realizing that it would be EOL in the near future (April 2021) we began searching for a distro that would or could replace it. We have not experienced any major difficulties with Lubuntu 20.04 which uses LXQT for 64 bit computers but that left us with the problem of the 32 bit computers. After looking at perhaps a dozen or so other alternatives, there are several which we thought could be used and they are AntiX, MX Linux, Bodhi Linux, and LXLE. Since we were looking only at the 32 bit versions and just as an interim replacement, they passed the bill. Of course since LXLE and Bodhi are based on Ubuntu, support for the 32 bit versions may stop after the current versions reach EOL. We did not have any problems with Debian (lxde).
Rex
Lubuntu 18.04

abacus7
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Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:17 pm

Re: From Lubuntu-LXDE to What?

Post by abacus7 »

Rex Bouwense wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:25 pm
. We have not experienced any major difficulties with Lubuntu 20.04 which uses LXQT for 64 bit computers but that left us with the problem of the 32 bit computers. After looking at perhaps a dozen or so other alternatives, there are several which we thought could be used and they are AntiX, MX Linux, Bodhi Linux, and LXLE. Since we were looking only at the 32 bit versions and just as an interim replacement, they passed the bill. Of course since LXLE and Bodhi are based on Ubuntu, support for the 32 bit versions may stop after the current versions reach EOL.
Newbie installs are probably more forgiving because the users are not set in their ways. For someone who's been on LXDE since the beginning, Bodhi can be a confusing and non-intuitive experience. Okay, I'm putting it nicely... I actually HATE it! One advantage though is the small size. My 32-bit computer only accepts USB sticks 1 GB and smaller, so if Bodhi is still < 1 GB, it would work on very old systems like mine.

My memories of AntiX were that the window manager was ugly compared to openbox, but it's been awhile since I installed it. Again, if you're just starting out in Linux, that wouldn't be a problem. I remember tihinking Lubuntu was ugly when I first started using it, then grew to love it.

MX Linux is nicely done. I only tried the 64-bit version and it was a little more resource-hungry than I wanted. If the 32-bit version would be more frugal with resources (would it?), I could go ahead and try it on my 64-bit system. But unfortunately, the ISO is too big for my 32-bit system.

Given the imminent demise of 32-bit Ubuntu, LXLE won't work for my 32-bit system. But I'm willing to give the 64-bit version a try on my 64-bit system. But as mentioned before, the install was corrupted. The actual distro was fine since I tried it live off of a USB...just couldn't install on a VM. Is it possible that only the installer got corrupted during the download? If so, I could download again. I have a slow Internet connection so don't want to download again unless there's a chance I could get a working installer.

Interesting you're not having any problems with Debian. I'm able to download the ISOs without any problems. I can also get the DVD and CD-based ISOs to install on a VM, though only after numerous tries during the Software Select and Install stage. But once the distros are installed on the VM, I cannot update or download any additional software. I've tried numerous repositories and mirrors and no joy. Very puzzling since that has never happened before and it doesn't happen with Ubuntu-based distros.

Rex Bouwense
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Re: From Lubuntu-LXDE to What?

Post by Rex Bouwense »

Bodhi 5.1.0 is only 782 MBs. The legacy version (that's what they call the 32 bit version) is only 747 MBs so they fit on a 1 GB flash drive. Your definition of ugly and mine are quite different but that of course is a personal thing and you are quite correct in saying it probably matters less to a Linux newbie. We have not downloaded the 64 bit version of LXLE because we are continuing to use Lubuntu (20.04 now) Our concern was only the 32 bit machines and I think that we have come up with a workable solution for them because there exists Debian and LXLE that still use lxde (for the time being) and MX Linux and Linux Mint 19.3 (good until 2023) which use xfce (which uses slightly more resources that lxde) and antiX. I was told when I first started using Linux some 14 years ago that you have to adapt and I have been doing that for a while. We have done our testing with real installs rather than in VMs. Not sure if that makes any difference.
There are of course some 40 other distros that offer an lxde version and though you have already stated that Sparky was not for you, I have a friend that swears by it. Again it is all in the eye of the beholder. Well good luck in your search for a replacement and the eventual demise of Lubuntu 18.04. I believe that there are about 5 months left before EOL.
Rex
Lubuntu 18.04

abacus7
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Re: From Lubuntu-LXDE to What?

Post by abacus7 »

Rex Bouwense wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:29 am
We have done our testing with real installs rather than in VMs. Not sure if that makes any difference.
The testing mode used to not make a difference, but most of the Debian-based distros I've been testing currently have been on VMs and that's where I'm experiencing the repository problems. But I tried out a version of MX Linux yesterday (downloaded six months ago) as a live distro on a real computer and it worked fine. It seems that maybe the VM is messing things up somehow.
There are of course some 40 other distros that offer an lxde version and though you have already stated that Sparky was not for you, I have a friend that swears by it.
Oh, Sparky is great! I've tried it many times. It's just that the latest version has come with the Debian repository problems. If I can figure out what's causing that, then Sparky would be one of my first choices.

I've browsed through Debian/Sparky/MX/BunsenLab forums and no one mentions repository problems, so it's apparently something on my end.

drooly
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Re: From Lubuntu-LXDE to What?

Post by drooly »

Putting all that (32bit, LXDE, not based on Ubuntu) in a distrowatch search pulls up a few results. Personally Id go with something based on Debian Stable, which wittles it down to Galpon MiniNo (a distro I have heard good things about for many years now) and KANOTIX.
I'd give the former a whirl if I was so inclined.
That said, I'm not too keen on the LXDE desktop as a whole, but I am using lots of its components (openbox, lxappearance, pcmanfm, lxpolkit, sometimes lxpanel) - and sometimes other, equally lightweight software that just doesn't happen to belong to the loose conglomeration that calls itself LXDE.

abacus7
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Re: From Lubuntu-LXDE to What?

Post by abacus7 »

drooly wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:49 pm
Putting all that (32bit, LXDE, not based on Ubuntu) in a distrowatch search pulls up a few results. Personally Id go with something based on Debian Stable, which wittles it down to Galpon MiniNo (a distro I have heard good things about for many years now) and KANOTIX.
I'd give the former a whirl if I was so inclined.
Thanks. I'll give them a look. Though for now, Debian repos are proving problematic. I'll give the issue some time to hopefully work itself out.

On another note, this morning, I tried out "Mint-LXDE" and loved it. It booted up using less RAM than Lubuntu-lxqt. It's Mint-xfce but using an LXDE session. LXDE was available in the Mint repos (which includes the Ubuntu repo).

That brought up a question... Will LXDE remain in the Ubuntu repository?

If so, for people who don't care for Debian, they could use Mint-xfce or Xubuntu as the base, then add LXDE to make it lighter.
That said, I'm not too keen on the LXDE desktop as a whole, but I am using lots of its components (openbox, lxappearance, pcmanfm, lxpolkit, sometimes lxpanel) - and sometimes other, equally lightweight software that just doesn't happen to belong to the loose conglomeration that calls itself LXDE.
That goes right to the question I posed. It seems a lot of distros use some of the above components. In a sane world ( :D ), logic would dictate they'd include the desktop itself.

Any thoughts on whether LXDE and/or it's components would remain in the Ubuntu repository?

abacus7
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Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:17 pm

Re: From Lubuntu-LXDE to What?

Post by abacus7 »

drooly wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:49 pm
Personally Id go with something based on Debian Stable, which wittles it down to Galpon MiniNo (a distro I have heard good things about for many years now) and KANOTIX.
Looks like Galpon MiniNo is dead.

abacus7
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Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:17 pm

Re: From Lubuntu-LXDE to What?

Post by abacus7 »

I did some RAM usage tests. Just some rough stuff...

* I used free -m to measure the memory used.
* I took the measurements immediately after boot, though with the netbook, I may have done some measurements after making changes and then logging out/logging in.
* The 3xx numbers means I didn't write down the measurements so am not using exact numbers.


Platform: Virtualbox VM
Lubuntu-20.04 306 MB
Mint-20xfce 452
Mint-20xfce LXDE session 353 (was < Lub-20.04 on earlier try, but is consistently 100 MB less than straight Mint-20xfce)
Mint-20xfce LXDE session,tweaked* 209

* Disabled about a dozen Autostart entries I didn't need

Platform: 64-bit Netbook, 1 GB RAM, 1.66 GHz single-core processor
I did actual installs to bare metal.

Mint-20xfce 3xx MB
Mint-20xfce LXDE session, tweaked 201*
Peppermint 10-20191210 3xx
Peppermint 10-20191210, tweaked** 225

** Tweaks included replacing Nemo with pcmanfm for controlling the desktop

Observations:
* Mint took a long time to boot up. A quick check shows that a lot of services are loaded at startup. Those could be selectively disabled.
* Although Mint-LXDE used less than 210 MB RAM, it wasn't as snappy as Peppermint, tweaked or untweaked. Clearly, there are things other than RAM that matter (which I knew going in), but it's still a good starting point for comparison.

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